Episode 68 // Apply Your Authentic Identity Internally First

Speaker 1 (00:00.908)
It’s kind of easy to button up your marketing for the most part, but then to get everyone internally in your company thinking that way and acting that way, that’s really what’s difficult. And I think that’s really what separates like great brands is that they have, you know, teams that are really well trained, really understand the brand, understand what the values are, understand what the behaviors are that fall out of those values and they actually live them out.

You’re listening to the Remarca Brand Podcast, where authentic brands win.

Speaker 1 (00:42.818)
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Market Brand Podcast. This is Mike Jones and my co-host David Coase and, and… Woo, we’re all back!

Sam Pagle. We got the whole team here, the three Musketeers.

the squad. We’ve had a few episodes in between our last chat, the three of us were on. I just want to remind ourselves and our listeners a little bit about what we talked about last time we were all together. We talked about how authentic identity builds lasting relationships and how that’s really the end. That is the goal of business, right? The money is important. We all acknowledge that. Sure. But the relationships are the end. That we’re trying to build things, create things, serve people well, right?

And that brand is an integral part of building those lasting relationships. So if you didn’t hear that episode, maybe go back and check that one out. I think it’d be a really helpful one as you jump into this one, if you haven’t heard it yet. But this time we’re going to be talking about how, okay, you’ve done all this hard work. You’ve really figured out your brand. You’ve got a sense of your identity, but now what do you do with it? Right? You’ve got all these assets. You’ve got a great brand anthem that you want to introduce to the world. Do you just start shoving it out in the marketplace?

Or should you maybe bring it internally first to your team? So we’ll get into that. Got a bunch of questions we’re going to work through. But before we do that, I do a little improv Sam.

Speaker 2 (02:05.35)
We’re gonna do some name ten things here and in the interest of you know thinking about team members you know internal teams I want to name ten Swag items you hope to get from your employer this Christmas

I definitely want a swag hacky sack again. swag hacky sack. I gotta bring those back. Yeah

Good. Mike?

I’m on the hot seat. Let’s go classic hat, but not classic hat style. I want a Stetson. A branded Stetson.

That’d be really cool. Number three, I’m thinking maybe a 12 pack of like branded toilet paper.

Speaker 1 (02:44.206)
Alright, I don’t know about cool, but it’d be something.

Speaker 1 (02:55.502)
Why not 18? I don’t know. Costco size, my friend.

But it’d be like three ply, like primo.

Okay, we go. so many bad mental images right now. Swag, pickleball mallet. Bracket. Yeah!

That’s hot right now. So hot right now.

So hot right now. in on that. branded Speedo, you know, because when you’re, when you’re at the European beach, that’s the only place I wear a Speedo.

Speaker 2 (03:23.34)
Yeah, that’s where your clientele is too, your target market probably. I’m gonna go back to the pickleball and just do a branded like one of those giant pickles that comes in like the sack, you know? Just a branded pickle, how cool would that be?

Okay, okay introduce your own corporate Pokemon cards

Red butter? Yeah, dill.

Speaker 2 (03:48.43)
That’s cool, like your team members are the characters.

Anime style? Exactly. Yeah. Superheroes? Superpowers? Collect them all. Thank you. I just came up with that.

Cool.

Speaker 2 (04:01.378)
How many HP points would you have in yours? I don’t know.

400 Okay, Brandon I’m I’m really praying for this one from Santa mm-hmm. you put I don’t pray to Santa? Nobody should be praying to Santa Send him a letter ask him I Really want my own personal AI assistant who hangs out my office that I can just talk to you know when I’m when I’m just having a hard day

It’s been a tough day. People have been just unkind to me. I need someone I can talk to. Who can help me, you know? Hey, Jerry. His name’s Jerry.

I would love that too for you, Mike, because then I wouldn’t have to listen to that all day for me.

Yes, now I can have my 30 minute history of Rome chat.

Speaker 2 (04:53.198)
a Roam bot That’s a great idea. I’m gonna look into that right now I’m gonna say a branded houseplant Hmm

You get that at the conference. You get that succulent swag. That’s what they are. Those ten, shoot. Branded bag of marbles. I don’t know. It’s kind like the pickles, but they’re smaller and… We’re clearly nearing the end of a Friday on this one.

All right last one David, what do you got?

Speaker 2 (05:23.63)
You

Speaker 2 (05:26.988)
and not edible.

Speaker 2 (05:31.904)
Alright, great job everyone.

I just like the succulent one. Succulent swag. That’s like its own company right there. All swag that’s succulents. I like Roombots, personally. Did they laser your logo into the leaves? Poor plants dying. It’s like on fire. man. they’ll evolve. They’ll evolve, yes. That’s it. To meet your brand requirements. I love it.

Every leaf is my logo on it.

Speaker 1 (06:05.432)
All right, let’s jump back in here. Okay, so you’ve got your authentic identity for your firm, right? You’ve done some really hard work. You’ve unearthed your values. You understand the personality of your firm. You’ve got probably some great assets, new logo, new colors. Maybe you’ve refined some things you’ve already got in the past. And you’ve got this great brand anthem that really summarizes your entire brand in like three to five sentences, okay? You got these great assets. You’re all excited.

You really want to go to market with them. Why would you not go directly to market with them and instead maybe focus on your team first and integrating those into your into your firm? Let’s talk about that. Why is that important? Well, I’ve got some thoughts on that already, Mike. I guess, first of all, hopefully you included your team in that journey up front. Hopefully it’s not like this big reveal like here’s who we are. And people are like surprised by it. Yeah.

or caught off guard or like even worse, no. That’s not what we feel like. That’s not what we look like. That doesn’t sit well with us at all. Now there may be some things that are new and different and not what they’re expecting, which might be a good thing, right? But hopefully you’ve involved your team as a part of that journey, right? Because I think it’s important that they’re speaking into it, that they’re informing it because your team does make up your brand, right? So that’s kind of like a prerequisite, I think.

as part of that process, you really need to include the team upfront. But I think also, you know, to deal with that sense of maybe surprise or like, oh, this is new, to coach them through it because it can be like, it’s, we’re calling it identity for a reason, right? People have identity crises. People have, they need to be introspective every once in a while. So there’s a sense in which if we don’t really believe this, if our employees don’t really believe this, then why would our customers?

If our employees don’t let this sink in and really buy into it, then why would we expect anyone else to? The customers that we want to serve well, right? The relationships that we’re trying to build. And I’ve seen that in corporate America where a new CEO comes in, has the best intentions, and they come up with this whole new values, and it ends up being new slogans on the wall or new Microsoft Teams backgrounds or whatever, Zoom backgrounds, right? But the employees weren’t really

Speaker 1 (08:31.736)
brought along in that. They didn’t feel like a sense of ownership in that. Or it just doesn’t jive well with the culture that’s already there. So I think it’s an important step. And like I said, I think it really should be a part of the process up front too.

I that’s a really good point David. Your brand is not this grab bag of things that, that’s cool or that sounds really good or I really like that. It should be more of a whole team or whole brand collaboration. It’s not one person coming in and saying this is what I want, I want this, this and this, this is how it’s gonna be. That doesn’t work out. Because like you said, the brand

is not just about one person. It’s not about what’s hot at the time. It’s about the people.

Or whatever is politically correct at the moment or trendy or yeah, yeah, I mean Right. It’s gonna change. Yeah Yeah, and I think there’s you know, going back to that the previous episode when we talked about how at the end of the day The relationships are what matter right there. They’re the reason that you’re in business. They’re really what’s driving you is Serving people well serving your customers or your clients super well with the services that you have

Good luck with that.

Speaker 1 (09:52.606)
And I think especially if you think about professional services, you think of accounting firms, so much of that service and that relationship is actually one to one, right? Is the people in your firm delivering on the promises that you’ve made in your marketing and in your sales, right? And they’re doing that day in and day out, minute by minute, hour by hour, phone call by phone call, or meeting by meeting with your clients. And so,

If your team doesn’t understand why do we have these core values? What is this personality of our firm? Then they’re just going to act however they feel is right for that client in that moment. And while that might serve the client well enough, it won’t connect with everything else that you’re doing as a brand. And so in the long run, you’re going to end up damaging that relationship. And so I think, I think a lot of it is like, why do we s-

So adamantly say you got to start internally first or or very early in the process, right? Maybe you don’t have the luxury to say hey, we’re gonna spend six months Really internalizing the new brand before anyone ever sees anything. I mean that probably isn’t gonna happen You’re gonna have to launch that logo internally and externally probably around the same time Yeah, maybe stagger it a little bit and we could talk more about that as we get further in the process here but like your team has to be the brand they are the

like manifestation of your brand identity as an organization, because you’re a bunch of people on a shared mission, on a shared goal with a shared vision, trying to serve your clients well. Do that together, unified by your brand identity. And if they’re not on board, they don’t understand it. They don’t understand what the expectations of your brand are. think like sometimes it’s like, it’s not just, we understand what the value, what we value as an organization. It’s like, well, what are the behaviors

What’s the culture that actually exemplifies those values? now I know what I actually have to do today in order to live well within the brand, right? So I think we’ll get more into that, but like, what are the things that you actually have to do? What are the behaviors that you need to instill in people to say, Hey, this is our way of doing things and not any other firm’s way of doing things. So I think, yeah, those are all really good points. I think.

Speaker 1 (12:15.192)
think we got some really good ideas there. I don’t think anyone would disagree with us on that. Most firms I talk to, they go through some kind of rebrand or a refresh of their brand. They understand there’s some level of internal rollout, right? We’ve got to get everybody on board. I love your idea, David. You’ve got to start there even in the definition process, including people. think like surveys are a great way to do that. Interviews with people across the firm.

You know having maybe some if you have a big firm putting some committees together, right? They can provide input and feedback throughout your process that can Just develop that this is our brand not just one person or one team’s brand or this that’s just marketing Marketing’s got our brand figured out. That’s their job. I don’t have to worry about that stuff. Yeah

Or you think of your brand as an ad campaign or something like that. Where it’s like, we know we’re gonna change this in a year, so let’s just figure out what sounds really good now and do it really quick. Let’s just get it done. That’s not what we’re talking about here. It’s not an ad campaign.

Yeah. Nope. All right, so can’t your team just like catch up? Can’t you just like start marketing your new brand or whatever kind of repositioning you’ve done or maybe you’ve refreshed, you know, a lot of the core messaging. Can’t you just like start launching that out in the marketplace and catch up? Yeah. Right. Is that okay? Can I just do it that way?

You could try

Speaker 1 (13:51.832)
David’s got pain face on. Yeah, pain face over here. I don’t know. Yes and no. I’m going to I’m going to say, I mean, there’s a sense in which you need to move whether or not the whole team’s on board, right? And in the marketplace, it’s not waiting for you, right? Your competitors aren’t waiting for you. So it’s going to be messy. Let’s just put it that way. And that’s OK. It’s OK for it to be messy. You’re not going to have a full, complete, 100 percent spotless, clean rollout of the brand new identity.

where everyone’s on board perfectly and everything is executed perfectly. Like that’s hard. And I think it’s okay to give yourself some grace as a company with that at the same time. No, you don’t want to just go like leaping out into advertising and marketing campaigns and new, you know, materials and whatnot, new messaging without a sense of a kickoff, some kind of internal presentation, some internal, you know, like road show, whatever you want to call that.

Because communication is really important and it’s a part of your brand too, right? Like how you communicate externally. Well, let’s take care of the internal team first. So I don’t know. I want to give, you know, companies that we work with that, you know, we see out there that give them some grace that it’s not going to be perfect and it’s not going to be every single employee is going to be 100 % on board. you know, so, yep. No, I’d agree with that. It’s mixed. Yeah. And there’s like, there’s just the reality of business, right?

I can only do so many things at one time. So we’re going to have to kind of piece these, just like we’re going to have to piece our rollout out a little bit when it comes to external stuff, right? There’s no such thing as like a hundred percent perfect external rollout of a new brand. Same goes internally, right? And there are going to probably be a few individuals that are like, yeah, you know what? We’ve done what we need to do at a baseline level to help you understand what we’re doing. You’re still struggling, not sure you understand everything. Or you disagree.

Or you disagree with it. Let’s have that conversation, but we’re also moving forward. You know, at of the day, we got to make a decision and this is what feels right. And so that’s good. Yeah. What are some of the outcomes or results or benefits that firms can expect from starting internally? Right. Making sure that we’re hey, when we launch this, we’re launching it internally and then we’re moving to external launch. I’d say just hopefully.

Speaker 1 (16:19.93)
your messaging feels like you hit the mark, right? Like the team that’s actually executing does so in a way that is accurate, right? That meets the criteria or the guidelines that we set beforehand. I don’t know, just, so I don’t know if there’s a way to measure that necessarily, but it looks and feels like what you’d planned, right? What you’d set out to do, right?

What else? think there’s like consistency, right? Just of like, okay, all of our marketing is going to be super buttoned up, right? Cause we’re, going to do it right. Well, and we’re going to launch this thing. Well, things are going to, you know, new logo is going to be rolled out everywhere. New messaging. We’re going to make sure we’ve got that pretty well buttoned up. But I think if, if you just kind of have that mindset and then you don’t think about your internal team, the minute a potential client starts talking to someone.

They’re getting very different messages. They’re probably going to get what they would have gotten before the launch, right? They’re going to get a story or they’re going to get an explanation of who you are and the firm that you are, what you do, who you serve from a previous iteration of the brand. And so if you’re rebranding or you’re launching something new, having everyone kind of singing from that same hymn book almost, if you want to use that kind of metaphor, helps bring that consistency.

It reinforces all the messages you’re gonna be putting out in your marketing with everyone who’s internally doing it. And it’s also gonna be like true, right? These promises you’re making with your brand, this identity you’re putting out there isn’t gonna be in conflict with all the in-person experiences or the one-on-one experiences that clients are gonna have. Where it’s like, yeah, the firm, when I talk to them or when I see their marketing feels one way.

But then when I’m actually working with my accountant or I’m working with the receptionist or I’m working with some admin, I get a different feel. Yeah. Right. And I think that’s where I think a lot of firms, I mean companies, right? Not, not just in accounting or professional services, but almost everywhere. Like that’s the real rub of brand. It’s kind of easy to button up your marketing for the most part, but then to get everyone internally in your company.

Speaker 1 (18:47.97)
thinking that way and acting that way, that’s really what’s difficult. And I think that’s really what separates great brands is that they have teams that are really well-trained, really understand the brand, understand what the values are, understand what the behaviors are that fall out of those values, and they actually live them out. Yeah. Yeah, I’d expect the CSAT or your customer satisfaction scores would be better if you roll out internally first.

Because like you’re saying, those boots on the ground, relationship on relationship kind of interactions feel more consistent. They feel closer aligned to what you’ve identified as being the new path forward. Well, hopefully, too, going to going back to our last question, if you’ve started internally, even in your defining process, right?

We’re really trying to understand not what does the marketplace want us to be necessarily, but what are we, right? What is our true identity based on the people, based on our culture, based on the values that we actually demonstrate and live out? You sometimes what we say we value and what we actually demonstrate are different, but if we’re actually building our values based on what we’re actually doing, what we really care about,

then rolling it out internally is not really a big push. Right. Right? It’s like, it’s just communication. It’s a natural- And giving people tools. Conclusion, right? Yeah. It’s kind like, well, this is, duh. Like, this is where this all makes sense. And most people in your firm should be like, yeah, yeah, this makes sense. I like this. I’m excited about this. I know we’ve worked with firms where, almost in some sense, they’re like so eager for the new brand.

That they’re like hounding, they’re chomping at the bit like, when can I see more? Like, I saw little bits and pieces as you were working on it. I want to see more. When can I start using it? I remember we talked with one founder, we were working with a consulting firm and their founder and CEO was, had shared some of the new branding with everyone in the firm and said, hey, by the way, like we’re not ready to use this yet. So, you know, just, you know, don’t, don’t use it yet.

Speaker 1 (21:12.086)
And the next day he got a deck that someone was preparing to give to a client and that person had gone ahead and used like the new logo and everything and he was like, you know what? They’re so excited about it. I’m just gonna let him do it. Let’s just do it. So, well, I was going to say another outcome or result is employee morale. Yeah, that’s a good one. They’re excited. Yeah, they’re motivated. They haven’t seen something like this in years. Maybe. Yeah.

And they’re like, thank God. It’s like a breath of fresh air, you know? It’s finally happening. Yeah. I’ve heard that one,

I think too is is almost like common sense for example You know let’s let’s think about like a name change, so you have a firm and the name is really long It’s hard to spell it’s hard to say nobody says the full name anyway and You make a decision as a firm and as a brand to change that name to something that

Maybe everybody already calls it or something that’s shorter, easier, better. That right there is like, well, yeah, we should have done this a long time ago. And then I have a kind of a. A simple example of of what this could look like practically of getting buy in from your team internally. So think about a logo and when you see a logo on the surface,

with no other context, you could have a myriad of different feelings towards that logo. And I know there are people at certain firms and businesses who are really in love with their old logo. And one way I think that we’ve seen to really get buy-in from your team internally and really paint the, just like, hey, here’s a cool new logo, but.

Speaker 2 (23:11.104)
you kind of educate them on here’s our logo, here’s why this is our logo. Here are the different elements that we incorporated into the logo that point back to this, this and this, our beliefs, our core values, who we are, how we act. And having that frame, that context, we’ve seen it so often where it’s like, wow, I didn’t even think about, that’s really cool.

and then they get really excited about it. And then everyone else on the team is like, that’s so cool. We wouldn’t ever have known if you hadn’t said that. But it’s like, there’s this connection. It’s not just like slap a new cool logo on it. What are the design trends right now? Let’s do that. No, it’s something that actually connects back to who you are as a core. And if your team members are bought into the brand, they’re going to buy into those different elements that are connected.

to the brand, the core beliefs. So that’s more of just a kind of a surface level, you we do a lot of logo projects as part of our brand work. But when you can paint the picture, even just a paragraph of text that says, here’s the logo mark, here’s what it means, here’s why we did this and this and this. So powerful as opposed to just like, here’s a cool logo, here’s some mockups of it on your building, whatever it is. Just that.

quick little context is like, that is, we, wow, yes, that’s the one, right?

Well, now they have a tool when they’re talking about it with like clients or other stakeholders outside of the organization, right? You’ve empowered your own employees to basically roll out the brand for you. Where, you know, you would have to connect all those dots for anyone else that sees the new logo too, right? You’re going to have to show people like why this logo matters at some level, especially established clients, right? They’re the ones who probably are going to be the most likely to be like,

Speaker 1 (25:06.106)
I don’t know, I kind of like the old one. But when you connect those same dots for them, yeah, you can do that formally in like a video or some kind of email announcement or whatever or some kind of event that you do with all your clients. But what if you also have all of your people having been bought into that process who are like, yeah, you know, when the, when the CEO got up there or the managing partner got up there and they explained the logo and they showed us what it all.

how all the pieces fit together and why we ended up with that. It just made so much sense to me. And now I can tell you, dear client, why this all made sense to me and hopefully it makes sense to you and your clients like, yeah, it makes great sense. I love it. So excited for you guys. But now those two people are having a relation. They’re building relationship right there over your new brand. And you’re building trust between you because you’re both in on it, right? No, no one’s being like,

We’re imposing the new brand on you. Yeah, it’s like no we’re explaining it and we’re getting we’re excited about it and we want you excited about it We want we want you to know why we made these decisions. I think that’s all about Relationship building caring for people. Well building trust. Yeah

That’s a good way to put it, Mike. Not imposing your brand on your team and almost feeling like you’ve leapfrogged over them to get to market with something that’s new and fresh.

Yeah, now let’s let’s be honest there will be team members who’ll be like I just don’t care right like like good job Well done. Yeah, love the new stuff. Don’t care. Yeah, like just give me my templates. I’m good to go back to your cube wench And that’s fine too like that’s part of the rollout is just saying what do you need? I don’t need all the backstory I don’t need to be you know I don’t need to hear all the fluffy fun stuff just

Speaker 1 (27:01.752)
Give me the tools I need to do my job and get out of my way.

Give me my hex codes, give me my font files, go away.

But that’s part of it too is like your internal rollout is as much about getting people excited and bought in as it is Just giving them the tools they need to do their job. making sure it’s really easy to find stuff Yeah, do they have a copy of your brand handbook? Yeah, is there a special folder? Is there a asset management tool that you’re using? Can they go find everything? Yeah, are there templates that are really easy for them to make or?

Are they gonna go screw it up because you didn’t make them easy enough? Yeah, so important to be intentional about that stuff too because that is a part of your brand experiences How easy is it for your team to like interact with your brand? Yeah, especially this this new thing that you’re you’re excited about Hopefully you’re you’re putting some thought and some care into that right? That’s important.

So Mike, we have to be honest as well and say that especially in larger firms, there will be those that do not like the brand.

Speaker 1 (28:06.926)
There will definitely be detractors. What do we do with those people?

Mmm. You’re fired.

I think Yeah, I think maybe just having a designated part of the office where yeah Maybe it’s just an hour a day that they have to go spend kind of like a shame room It’s that time of day

I think I think you you have a set of cubes in the very middle and it’s like an island shame island

Yeah. And they have like bathroom passes and they can’t leave without asking permission.

Speaker 1 (28:42.558)
They can have all the old logo like logos on documents and stuff, but they cannot leave that island. Yep They never see the light of day. There’s a couple of reasons why they made terrible. Why don’t they like it? let’s yeah, that’s a good question So what typically have we seen? Yeah, when when we hear of that kind of feedback? Is it that maybe they weren’t included up front? I think that’s a big one and they’re identifying you know what this doesn’t really feel right I think that’s a really big one. So I think one of it is just

making sure your process includes people. Maybe think through who are some of your most likely detractors up front and make sure that you’ve built into your process some way to get their voice heard. Whether that’s, they got included in an interview or they were part of an initial workshop or they certainly, they got the survey and they had an opportunity to voice their opinion on things. I think that’s a big part of it.

For some, depending on their level in the organization, you might need to do some hand holding, right, in that process of like, I know you don’t understand why we’re doing this, let’s sit down and talk, let’s try to take as much time as we can to really get you on board. How can we help you to see the value of what we’re doing in this process, why we need to rebrand, or why we need to change our logo, or why we need to change some of our messaging?

What would help you in that? Yeah, and are these detractors against the idea of rebranding or is it I just don’t like it. It turned out. Yeah, it could be one. It could be either. Right. It might just be they they just never saw the value in doing any work to begin with. Right. Right. Or it could be we just don’t like the outcomes. Yeah. That’s fair. And that’s fair. I do think there comes a point.

in the process where if you’ve done that work to include them, hear their voice, get their feedback, they’re consistently pushing back over and over and over again, that you kind of have to just say, look, this is where we’re headed and hopefully your leadership’s bought in. If they’re not bought in, then you probably have some bigger issues. And we’ve encountered some of those types of clients over the years, those kinds of organizations where maybe not all of your leadership’s bought in and that

Speaker 1 (31:02.476)
That is a more difficult situation. That’s one where you probably need to take a few steps back and say, we need to have a way to make decisions within our leadership. And if we don’t have that process in place, if we don’t have a way that where everyone can say, I got my voice heard, I disagree, but I’m going to move forward. Right? Now, if it’s not leadership who’s saying that, and you’ve given them at least some level of voice,

and they’re still detracting. Now it’s time to just say, yep, this is what’s happening. Here’s the date. Let’s go on live. And we’re just not gonna talk about it again, right? Like we have to make business decisions. Yeah, we have to keep moving forward. And you have that all the time. And maybe those employees weren’t on board with other things to begin with. They’re just doing sticks in the mud. But I think, yeah, it isn’t, I mean, the larger the firm.

Or the company or if there’s a merger acquisition history or something you still have this infighting that lingers you have the residue from us well we used to do it this way and then we used to do it that way and So yeah, and that points back to leadership it but that’s a good reason to do a rebrand right Yep is to get everybody on the same page and then that that probably also begs like You need to do some some more not not maybe not even more than another firm. It’s just

reinforces the value of training around your brand, right? That launching it is one thing, but coming back and really almost institutionalizing it and saying over and over again, repeating it over and over, showing it over and over, talking about it over and over, and then saying, what are the actual individual behaviors that exemplify our brand? At almost an individual level, right? Maybe at a team level,

at a whole company level, but even at an individual level, what does living out our brand look like? And doing that over and over and over again, are we living it out? Re-assessing it, re-evaluating it, maybe every quarter, maybe every, all hands, maybe every year at some kind of annual leadership retreat, right? Coming back to your brand over and over and over again, to the point where like, maybe some people have been around a long time, and like, my.

Speaker 1 (33:27.534)
Yes, we’re gonna go over the values again. Yeah, we are because we really actually care that much and Guess what? Suzy next to you has only been here for six months, right? She needs to hear them over and over and over again, right? And she needs to see you demonstrating them over and over and over again She needs to understand how we reward people for living out our values and living out our brand

So I think, you know, for large firms, I think the merger and acquisition one, that’s a really good point that you made. I think that’s a big one because you have these like conflicting cultures at some level, right? Even when you find some commonality, there’s always something that is different. Yeah. And sometimes it is the bigger fish that wins, right? So, you know, people will kind of self-select and say, yeah, I’m down and I agree with the bigger brands.

Identity and I can buy into those values and then others won’t yep Yep, and at some level like, you know Hopefully, you know their process brings people along There’s gonna be a few people maybe a handful that just don’t believe it right and They’ll kind of self select out over time And and that’s at one level. It’s sad, right? We don’t love

seeing relationships in, right, going on and doing other things. But at the same time, part of the value, one of the results, one of the benefits you get from brand is solidifying everyone as I actually fit here. I’m buying in. I’m buying in. This is a place that I fit within my own personal values, my own kind of sense of mission and purpose fits this organization. When you’re not clear about your brand,

It allows for a lot of people to kind of be like, well, I think I fit here or I can kind of carve out my own little agenda and make things work for me, even though my personal identity maybe doesn’t quite align with everything that we’re doing here. And being very explicit and specific with your brand allows everyone to be like, yeah, I fit here or I don’t. And you go, great. Let’s let’s help you, you know, move on to the next thing for you.

Speaker 1 (35:50.05)
that will be a better fit for you.

In the same way that a strong brand in a way kind of gets you to the right types of clients, it can also kind of help you tailor your team to have the right people in the right seats who want to be there, who are passionate about the brand. And not just like, I don’t really like it, but whatever. It’s a job.

I mean, we just talked to a firm yesterday who just, you know, they said multiple times, like, we all love this firm. We love this brand. We love what we do and what we stand for as a company. And that’s a 1500 person accounting firm. Like, that’s not insignificant to have a marketing team who’s all on board. You know, I, you know, question, is that true for all 1500? Probably not.

Right? There’s gonna be somebody in that mix who’s like, yeah, I don’t know. Like, it’s a job. Yeah. And that’s fine. That’s okay. And like Sam said, mean, same thing with your client portfolio. You’re always gonna have, you know, a small, hopefully small percentage. That’s just not the best relationship or the best fit. And the brand helps with the clarity of where you’re going and who you want to be attracting. Yeah.

Well, we talk all the time like your brand is like an arrow, right? going at a bullseye and If you miss the bullseye in the middle of the target, but you still hit the target That’s great. Right like that. That’s not a bad thing We’re always aiming. always shooting for we’re being as specific as possible to get to that target But there’s an area around it. That’s very safe and good Right, but if you don’t have the art, you don’t have the target

Speaker 1 (37:40.524)
You don’t know what the bullseye is. You’re much more likely to just miss the whole thing altogether. Right. And I think just like that works in the marketplace with clients. It’s the same thing with your recruiting and your retention. Right. If we’re really specific about what we stand for, what we believe, how we act, you just make it that much easier for everyone in your firm to be like, yep, I’m bought in or no, I’m not. Okay. See ya.

You

Or that’s not going to be a good hire, right? They can self-select out even before you make the offer. That’s the ideal, obviously. You’re not even bringing them in. Okay, what pitfalls or challenges do we need to expect going into this? Maybe we’ve already covered these a little bit, but I think it’s a good question to ask.

Yeah, I think there’s gonna be… there’s probably gonna be hard questions. Mm-hmm. There’s probably gonna be some friction.

You’re gonna have some conversations.

Speaker 2 (38:43.566)
there’s definite conversations.

Like, there’s gonna be some discussion that you’re gonna have to have. This isn’t gonna just be like, super easy, wash my hands.

Everybody loves it. Everyone’s super excited about it. Yeah. Yeah

Or clarifying questions can be helpful too like what do we mean when we say this value here? Yeah, can you? Explain that or elaborate on that and those are good things to discuss right on the flip side You’re also gonna get people who are gonna say why can’t I just have it right now? me use it Get out of my way. we’ve had that we’ve had calls We had a client rebrand launched it in January and we did an all call with all their employees beforehand

about a month or two before and you know, we weren’t ready to launch it publicly. That was not part of the plan yet. And we had people who were like, where’s my stuff? Where’s my templates? When can I see them? Like what’s the date? Like, I mean, it was like, they were so eager to use it. So I think just, I don’t think it’s a big challenge, but just being prepared for those people who were like, I’m ready. Give it to me. Let’s go. And you’re going to have to be like, okay, patience takes time to

Speaker 1 (39:56.888)
get everything ready and here’s the date. think having a really good, know, setting good clear expectations of when things will be ready, where to find stuff, what communication is gonna go out. So even as you’re thinking about internally rollout, you also need to be thinking, okay, externally, how are we gonna be rolling this out and preparing our people to know what’s being said out publicly?

This is when the press release is going out. This is when we’re going to send out this big video update. This is when we’re going to be doing this event. Those are really helpful. Then they feel like they’re in the know and they actually can speak to those things when they’re talking with clients.

That’s a good point, Mike. Thinking about a rebrand or a brand refresh in a way of like, how can we do this in a way? How can we roll this out internally so that we’re serving our team members well? And not saying, here it is, we launch it tomorrow, make sure that you have all your templates ready to go. Retweet everything we put out.

Serving your team well through that that process Giving them a solid lead times to digest this stuff to learn about it to incorporate it into their own work and and not this like rushed Guy, you know, we’re doing this today and tomorrow. We better not see the old logo ever again You guys gotta get on this That’s a good way to rub people the wrong way and probably have a bad first impression for that that new brand

So serving your people well through that that’s probably gonna mean being better prepared to roll it out internally Defining it well enough and clear enough so that there aren’t just a ton of questions, and you don’t have answers to them And you know flushing out those different You know logo fonts all these all those different elements that people are gonna want and need Making sure those are ready to go and readily available

Speaker 1 (42:02.572)
Yeah, like going back to what you said earlier, Mike, like you don’t want to impose this on people. So I think we don’t want to be imposed. We don’t want to be utilitarian. Like I just slap like slap this brand on and just start throwing out the new assets in the marketplace. But I think, again, I just want to point back to another thing you said. If leadership hasn’t fully bought into it, you rolling it out to your team and having them

like sense some kind of a disagreement or a disconnect between the leadership and the brand that you’re proposing or presenting, that’s gonna be a problem. Anytime there’s a disconnect there, you know it’s gonna trickle out to your customers as well. And the team really needs to be on board. And if your leaders aren’t bought in, then it’s already failed. Even if you haven’t started yet. So. I think even,

Yeah.

Empowering your team to help you roll it out so like one thing that we’ve talked with a lot of our clients about in their rollout process is go Enable your your you know, let’s go do a quick look at your top accounts your top client accounts and then let’s give your Kind of account managers or wherever your kind of point person is for those accounts Who has the relationship with that person from the client side?

Say, we’re gonna give you messaging and make sure you understand what we’re doing ahead of time and send this out to them before even we do our big public reveal. Right? So one, those people in your firm who have these deep client relationships are empowered to continue to be the point person and really earn that trust of like, Hey, I’m getting this information before they’ve even made it public yet because I’m a valued client and I’m getting it from my contact.

Speaker 1 (43:57.67)
Who I have a great relationship with because they’re in the know, right? They’re empowered by you You know you as in leadership or you as in the marketing team if you’re kind of responsible for the rollout That’s a little bit tactical In the weeds probably, you know closer to your public launch but just utilizing your own internal people to talk about the brand maybe giving them like hey, you know certain

certain accounts, let’s give them a heads up before we do our big public launch. Maybe tease some of the logo or some things out to them so they can feel like, I’m in the know, right? And doing that through your individual team members who have those relationships can be really huge. Okay, what are some ways to engage internally with your brand? So what’s the nuts and bolts? Like how do we actually do this? Is there a process? Is there?

certain things we should be doing, certain activities, certain touch points, assets we need to have. I think this one’s kind of wide open, but this is where the rubber hits the road.

Haki sax, obviously, would be…

So swag, gotta have some swag, huh?

Speaker 2 (45:10.328)
Yeah. That’s- Swag is good. It’s… not necessary.

swag is good.

Speaker 1 (45:16.942)
It is funny, it’s, you know, having done branding for a long time, I think I’ve kind of like, okay, swag, whatever. But when I talk to clients and like the minute we start talking about swag, everyone on the client side is, when am I getting my stuff? Like, when am I getting it? I want it, you know? It’s like, the logo becomes real when it’s on a coffee mug. Until then, I don’t believe it’s real.

There’s a way to do that well to like, know sending out a pen and a chap, you know a stick a chapstick And saying here it is, you know, congrats team member on your new your new brain. It’s like When you put effort into something yeah, and that’s not a substitute for an actual like good quality rollout internally Give people what they actually would use or value sure

That’d be great. think it requires just a lot of FaceTime with people. Sending out a deck or even a video recording of maybe the CEO announcing it to the team. That’s great. But you gotta do You gotta have some real personal interactions with your team around this stuff.

I really like open Q &A’s with the rollout team to your all, you know, an all hands type Q &A, maybe run a couple of those, capture as many voices as possible, let them kind of go, you know, ask, you know, do a little presentation, maybe like, hey, here’s how we’re planning to do the rollout, here’s some major milestones, here’s when you should expect some certain things, here’s…

You know, if there’s a press release going out, if there’s an email blast, if there’s videos that you’re gonna launch out to the public, giving everybody in the firm lots of heads up on those things, giving them a timeline. When can they expect to you know, see different document templates? What do they do if they don’t have something, right? Giving them a process for, hey, I use this document all the time. I didn’t see it in the templates.

Speaker 1 (47:30.734)
Can I get something? What do I do with this, right? So, you if there’s something they’re using that has old branding on it, giving them a process or a means by which to raise their hand and say, hey, I need this redone or should I just continue to use it? Is there a different template I can use real quick and drop it in there? That kind of stuff. Even just like, even before that, as you’re thinking through like, you know, your process of including people of like, hey, giving them milestones even in the branding,

Definition process of like hey, here’s the new values. Here’s the new personality traits or when you get to the logo Here’s the new logo Let’s explain it like you talked about Sam. So that’s kind of like earlier in that process So that by the time you’re ready to actually launch everyone’s like I’m really excited about the logo I’ve been waiting months for this thing to go live, right? and then I think there’s like these

deeper ways to integrate that maybe are either before or even after your big public launch. Things like integrating your values and your anthem into your all hands meetings, right? Reinforcing them over and over again. Having some kind of like feedback loop on that of like, how are we doing on these? Whether that, I don’t know if that needs to be every month, but could be, could be every month.

Even within your own individual teams, like maybe you have client service groups who are serving a particular set of clients or certain industry or have a particular service you’re offering. Build that into your rhythm as a team of reviewing your values. What does this look like when we do it as our little client service group? Maybe they’re not little. Maybe it’s a big client service group, but those are just a few things I’ve thought about. Some things that our clients have done. Onboarding is another big one.

Really big one. You know, part of like brand tribes. I mean, I’m thinking consumer. I mean, not not just B2B, but in consumer that there there need to be ways in which your customers and your audience can participate in your brand that kind of internalizes it and they get excited about. So it’s not just buying a product. It’s not just, you know, watching an ad or something, but there’s there’s different like rituals or ways that, you know,

Speaker 2 (49:25.536)
I like…

Speaker 1 (49:54.134)
You can participate. I’m thinking of I don’t know. mean, Apple is huge. Yeah, most. Yeah, right. But there’s ways in which Apple people participate in that brand that are unique, right? Like lining up outside the store for the new iPhone. Yeah, maybe one of them. I don’t know. Going to the Genius Bar or something like there’s just different ways like the Worldwide Developers Conference or whatever it’s called when Apple does one of those. But different brands can have different ways of

allowing their audience to participate. And I think like you’re highlighting some ways maybe internally we can, where you can do some kind of a ritual that’s unique to us, right? And trying to come up with that might be challenging, but there are creative ways to do that. I mean, I’m even thinking of this just came to mind, but you guys know Dave Ramsey, who’s like the financial help guru guy. They incorporated that.

Step-free scream, which I think is just a brilliant idea because the people come all the way to this show To scream on on the air. Yeah, that’s a ritual that they’ve baked into their branding I thought that’s pretty creative how they do that and everybody knows what it is Yep, and everybody kind of buys in and internally they can do the same thing right like you’re on that same board or you’re on that same path Yeah, so maybe there’s a way in which your business even if it’s b2b or something. Maybe there’s a way that

You can participate in your product or you can participate in that That brand tribe ritual. Yeah, something that unites everybody. So onboarding is a good touch point for that annual retreats are a good touch point for that Celebrating something with someone in a way that only your brand would do it. Exactly Yeah, I think about like, you know, what are those those kind of meaningful touch points for employees? Just like you would with a client right you think about your client experience

And you can find these ways to kind of infuse your brand into that anniversary right do that with your people too whether it’s anniversaries birthdays big life, you know moments sure I was even thinking like Chick-fil-a my friend John was reminding me John McCoy was reminding me the other day If you say thank you to an employee of Chick-fil-a for their service, they don’t ever say you’re welcome, right? They always say my pleasure

Speaker 1 (52:10.994)
And that’s an extension of their brand and the values that they hold Because it yeah, because it serves their customer. Yeah way, but

I think one little thing that we do here internally is kind of allowing team members to tell their own stories about how they’ve worked through a value or an element of the brand for the past week or month or whatever the time frame is. And kind of storytelling.

your way through your brand, your team members. Like, hey, all right, we’re gonna focus on this value today or this month. Let’s talk about how we live that out with our clients or with each other. And you get different, that’s how it’s like, we’re just gonna talk about the same thing over and over again. No, because it looks different with each team member and each interaction, each client. And that’s one way you can kinda like really solidify that.

That brand and the elements of that brand through the different ways your team members live it out. Yep

And I think even like case studying some of your top team members who are really exemplifying the brand. I know of one pretty big accounting firm that I don’t know if they’ve done it yet, but they were working on a panel discussion with some of their like really top kind of almost brand ambassadors. But it was a group of all their other brand ambassadors, all these like kind of point people in different regions who were out networking, developing business and saying, hey, let’s gather them together. We’re going to put on the stage.

Speaker 1 (53:44.962)
three or four people who are kind of seen as head and shoulders above everyone else doing a really great job and just say, let’s just ask some questions on what’s working. What do you do that really is helping exemplify the brand out in the marketplace? Now that’s a very outward focus, what’s working for them. You could do that internally too. You could say, hey, let’s reward each other. Let’s acknowledge each other for when we do live out the brand well.

whether that’s a rewards program or just some kind of way of highlighting people. You know, I think everybody’s got like an employee of the month type program. Do that. Like don’t not do those things, but how do you put your own brand, of infuse your brand into it? You know, maybe it’s instead of rewarding people just for top performance, reward them also for like you demonstrated or lived out the values and your peers are the ones who voted on that and said that.

that you were the one or nominated you or something like that. So I think those are, those are cool. Those are good ways. Anything else on that?

Speaker 1 (54:53.25)
think we covered a couple here.

How do you engage different experience levels with your brand? So you’ve got different team members who are different levels of experience. maybe, you know, obviously you got very experienced partners and maybe have some equity in the company, in the firm, all the way down to like someone who just got hired yesterday, entry level, knows it’s just getting their feet wet in the industry. How do you engage them or do you need to engage them differently with your brand?

Well, you would hope a long time, you know, partner of the firm or maybe it’s just a really, really solid long time employee of the firm had been involved in that process already. We’ve had that with clients who bring in, you know, obviously leadership teams, but then like key employees who handle really key aspects of the business and

they make them a part of that branding process because they want, that person has been in the brand for sometimes two to three decades. So they’re a part of that process already. And I think, you know, if you don’t start with that, we’ve already talked about it, but if you don’t include those people, not as like they get to make all the decisions, but they’re part of the building process there. You kind of have to do that.

Yeah, maybe experience levels or even just, you know, how close are these folks to the client or to the customers? How much are they going to be impacted by a rebrand? if someone is actually messaging on behalf of your company, then obviously you need to engage them differently than someone who’s, you know, they’re in the mail room. don’t know. What’s a good example? Do we still have mail rooms? That’s cool. Yeah, actually.

Speaker 1 (56:49.646)
I’m sure some firms do really big companies fortune. Whatever two companies. Whatever. Yes, they do Which is surprising actually But but yeah you if you have If you’re expected to message on behalf of your if how closely you’re expected to embody the brand Right to live out the brand now. We’re all expected to in some sense. We’re expected to participate in the brand but

If you are the face of the company in a way that’s more impactful or pronounced than someone else, then maybe you need to be engaged differently. Meaning, yes, Sam’s right. You’re involved upfront. You’re instrumental in defining and articulating and in validating and going, yep, nope, that doesn’t feel like us. Yes, that does. Because you know what customers react to. You know what turns people off. You know what the customers go, yeah, no, I’m not.

not going in that direction. And you know what they what they want and what serves them well. So those those employees definitely need more engagement. They need more ownership. Yep. And it’s going to be different than somebody who came in at the mail room. Maybe. Yeah. But even I mean, I’m thinking about like delivery drivers or no, they still know they all need to be a part of it. It’s just how much emphasis you place on, you know,

the execution is probably a different scale for different employees. Yeah, and I think I don’t know if this is a hard and fast rule, but generally those with more experience either in the industry or in your firm versus those who are maybe very new, young, inexperienced. One probably has more of a conversational element to it where it’s like, we got to kind of

talk to you, get your feedback, it’s a discussion, it’s a back and forth. The other one’s a little bit more, it’s training, right? For someone new to your firm, it’s really more about just training them, right? It’s not so much a conversation, like you’re coming into this brand new, you don’t know our brand, you’re just trying to get introduced, you’re just trying to understand and get your feet set. So let’s give you some really good tools to get your feet set with this new brand that you’re coming into, versus someone who’s been in the firm for

Speaker 1 (59:15.95)
you know, 20, 30 years, it’s like, yeah, you’re gonna be doing a lot of conversation with them. They’re almost setting their, they’re setting the stage for the brand itself, hopefully involved in your process of defining the brand and rolling it out. But yeah, I think that’s not a huge one, but that’s kind of an important one. I think a lot of people maybe gloss over a little bit. All right.

Just a couple more here. What tools are helpful in communicating the brand? How do we move beyond just posters and backgrounds?

Speaker 1 (59:53.698)
I can think of some easy ones, brand handbooks, and we call them remark books. And ideally ones that aren’t just like, here’s how to use the logo, here’s the do’s and don’ts of the logo and the colors, but something that actually sets the definition of the brand. Like here’s how to talk about us, here’s some tools to think about our values, what behaviors look like that exemplify our values, here’s the personality of our firm, maybe use an archetype or a brand metaphor to help make that real for people.

Give them something that can kind of latch on to. think a video would be really helpful. I love that. Yep. I don’t know explainer videos the right term, but a video that conveys it. Maybe similar to the handbook, but it’s just a different way of kind of showcasing the different aspects of your brand. Yep. The brand story. You want to tell that brand story, that anthem in a way that’s just more impactful. Yep. Yep. We’ve done some of those with clients and those are really helpful.

I think especially in professional services if that comes with a face usually, you know, you’re managing partner or someone in leadership or maybe have a few different ones as a part of that I think that helps reinforce like hey, we’re all in this together. We’re all moving in this direction We’re all really excited about it. And here’s what we here’s what we say. Here’s what we do Here are the behaviors that really exemplify who we are

One of my favorite things that we get to do when we help someone rebrand is we help them define their values. But we’re not just listing out four or five words that everybody agreed on. We’re actually like, we’re almost, we’re like taglining each of those values. So for example, a value of innovation. Okay.

That’s great for your firm and it’s true for who you are as a firm, but let’s take it beyond the word. Don’t just stop at that. And we usually like to come up with a little catchy, like catchphrase for each value that kind of hearkens back to the firm itself. And sometimes those are fun. Sometimes they’re kind of a pun, if you will, but it’s something memorable.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18.4)
It’s more memorable than just a word that anybody else can say is their value. We craft that down to their specific individual brand and then we flush it out from there too. mean, it’s usually two or three paragraphs of description of here’s what this value is and this is what it means for our brand. It’s what it means to us. This is how we live it out. This is what we don’t do. This is what we do.

to me is just a way to take it beyond a list of like, yeah, everybody says that about their firm. No, it’s like, this is a… Quality. Yeah, quality. So that’s one of my favorite things about what we’ve been able to do for different firms is really narrow it down and focus it to that specific brand.

Yeah, and those slogans can become artifacts in and of themselves. Like, put that on a t-shirt, put that on a coffee mug, put that on some swag. It has so much more meaning than just putting your logo on stuff. And if you’re done right, some of those slogans might even be worthy of customer-facing, being client-facing as well.

I think it really turns your brand into something that isn’t just on a piece of paper, isn’t just in a brand handbook, but is usable and you can put it in a lot of places just to remind people over and over, yeah, that’s, when I work here, that’s what we mean, that’s what we stand for, that’s what we do. Those slogans are super helpful for that. Yeah, I love those. I mean, there’s tons and tons of tools.

We talked about a lot already, but just stuff like running, you know, regular workshops around your values, around your anthem, how to explain it, maybe running some workshops on like how to network well, you know, really go out there and exemplify the brand, use the right terminology. So we’re consistent, but without also being like a robot, right? Just like, Oh yeah, I memorized the, the, you know, 32nd script.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28.494)
It’s like no kind of kind of make it yours, right? Maybe use your own voice and how you say that when you’re out talking with people networking or whatever Obviously all of the like actual client facing tools and marketing tools. Those are really important I love just even assessments, right? Just like hey, how are we doing on these whether that’s a survey or more of a workshop type assessment?

Something where you’re kind of regularly checking in and saying, are we living out the brand? How are we doing on that? Where do we need to improve? Where do you need to improve? Maybe you personally need to have a little bit more focus on one aspect of the brand or another.

I got one yeah feeding your values and brand personality traits and brand story into chat GPT mmm to inform it and that is our brand Right to this that’s kind of sounds silly, but it’s true if you’re using that It’s a great way to tailor that content to your voice and your mood your values and your traits yeah

the employee you never knew you

Make sure he’s on board, or she, or it, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43.768)
free intern. Alright, how do you keep the flame alive? Alright, we’re a few years in, we’ve launched it, we’re living it, we’re doing it, maybe it’s starting to get a little old. Man, we’re seeing that slogan again? Man, I’ve seen it so many times. We’re using that color still? it’s been five years.

What do you say to the partner of your firm that walks in the door and says we need something fresh, need something new. We haven’t changed anything in years. No we have not, this is our brand.

from that flame.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24.142)
Yeah, it depends on what it is. guess there’s certain there’s certain. You can always be discovering new ways of expressing the brand that already is true and you can be creative with that. So hopefully your brand is built in such a way that and defined in such a way that there’s still freedom. There’s still flexibility. You can get creative within the boundaries of what still feels authentic, because ultimately at the end of the day, what we preach is authentic identity. So it needs to feel real.

That’s the most important part. But yeah, things do get stale. It does get old. It may not hit the way that it hit five years ago, and that’s okay. There’s freedom to be creative and try what’s some other ways of saying this, right? What are some other ways of exploring what’s true about our identity, but communicating it differently? So yeah, different phrases, different slogans, different ways. But as long as our values and the things that we know are true to our identity are not on the chopping block.

Because that’s that’s a recipe for disaster because then you’re gonna just be looking for newness without Truth. Yeah without sincerity. Yeah, you don’t want to be changing your DNA, right? That get kind of that gets kind of ugly. That is also unethical Not in China not going there We’re gonna lose all our Chinese clients

I think David’s here point I think if you if you go into a rebrand thinking this is gonna solve every Problem that we have as a company. It’s going to automate our marketing Everything is gonna be super easy. This is the one fix all thing for our firm Not gonna work. It’s kind of like a marriage if you go into a marriage thinking like this is gonna be great for me I’m gonna get so much out of this like yeah

maybe two or three years down the road, you’re like, what is going on? But if you go into a brand or a rebrand with kind of the right mindset of we want to know who we are, we want to know our authentic self as a brand, and we want that to inform everything we do. It doesn’t mean that we are so strict that it looks and sounds the same for the next 20 years.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46.914)
But it’s the set of almost like a set of rules that guide you. It’s a guide. It’s a guidepost. It’s a kit. It’s a kit. It’s a and that’s why we like the remark a book or the brand handbook so much because it is always there and it’s always a referenceable. And for all you marketers out there who you know you have a campaign coming up or you need to design a new banner or whatever it is.

You have this set of rules and this guide that you already know is in place. That you work from and it constrains you in a good way because the world is not your oyster, right? You’re not picking an orange color or Kelly green when that has nothing to do with your brand. You have these guides that you can work from and at the end of the day, like you said, David,

You hope that the brand is constructed in a way to where there’s still freedom to work from that. But there’s not so much freedom that everything’s different every time you start with a blank canvas.

Yeah, there should be enough material there that it’s concentrated and it’s well defined, but it still can provide inspiration. It can still breathe new life into new ideas and new ways of expressing. But yeah, you’re not changing values. You’re not changing your core authentic identity in any way. You’re just changing how you express it. And that could look different. mean, talking about a marriage, mean, a good marriage that lasts 40, 50, 60 years, right? There’s different…

Expressions of that marriage there’s different ways in which you know you relate to your spouse over the decades and things that you experience together are different and there’s different way You know because if you go to the same date place every single year, you know five ten years and we’re going to the same place It’s like this is getting old. Yeah, we try something new or the same vacation spot. You know, we go to the same place every single year Okay. Yeah, it was good for back then but man, I’m ready for something new. That’s okay. Yeah, There’s freedom

Speaker 1 (01:10:51.98)
Yeah, think yeah not losing the core right and that that we talked I mean we’ve talked a lot about this before in past episodes We talked about a ton in our book You know the core elements of your brand that really should not be changing. We talked about values talk about your personality Right if you’re guys if you got split personality disorder, you got real issues, right? And then the further the the further out you go the more freedom you have right so

Something, an asset that’s very close to your core is your logo, right? It’s pretty close. It isn’t in that conceptual definition stage. It’s one level outside of that, because it’s visual. It’s a visual expression of your brand. But it’s probably one of the most unique symbolic elements of your brand that if you start messing with it a lot, you’re going to confuse people, right? Things like colors, that gets a little bit

just one step outside of your logo, right? Same thing with fonts. You get to like patterns and textures. You get to like photo styles. You get to like tertiary elements or icons or like other visual expressions or even like some of the writing that you’ve done, right? These things are less and less as you move further and further away, less and less close to your core. You might have a little bit more freedom with those things. Now you mess with them enough,

enough times and you’ll lose some of that identity. But you have some ability. That’s why I also think like having a lot of freedom within the palette or within the constraints that you do create, right? So making sure that like, okay, if we’re going to have some colors, let’s maybe not have three. Let’s maybe have three primary, a few secondary, and then some tertiary colors. Cause we know that in five years we’re going to want to kind of mix it up a little bit. Which one to get reinforced, maybe even give yourself some

examples of how you can use those in different ratios, right? I can think of, I know with our own brand handbook, I think we’ve done it with one or two other clients of like actually giving them ratios of colors and saying, hey, these are like kind of the best ratios and there’s like 20 of them, right? So there’s a lot of variety there. When you’re picking out textures or you’re picking out patterns or you’re creating photo styles,

Speaker 1 (01:13:18.358)
Give yourself lots of ammo to work with, right? Lots of different options up front in your own brand guidelines, knowing that the people working on your stuff who are creating your marketing are probably creative people. They wanna have some flexibility, they wanna have some options. Just don’t give them open-ended, like anything is possible, right? But also don’t be so closed that it’s like, I have no options, right? Everything looks exactly the same.

Every single time every campaign that we put out just has the same Layouts the same colors the same like it’s just like This is really gonna be hard. It’s gonna be hard for your creatives also You know it’s gonna come down to your brand too, right if the core of your brand is we are Very conservative. We don’t ever change. We are tried and true We just we’re just black and white Okay

Let’s have a visual expression of that. Let’s have a verbal expression of that. Don’t stray too far or we won’t be black and white anymore. So maybe you’re a more fun, colorful brand. I don’t know. So that’s good. That kind of wraps up this one. Next time we’re going to jump into, all right, you’re ready to launch. What do you do? How do you start to get out in the marketplace with your brand and really?

build relationships well with your brand. What are the first things you need to worry about? So that’ll be on our next episode that talks on these topics. Might have a couple other episodes somewhere in there about some other things that we’re working on. So yeah, we’re excited to have everybody back listening on the next one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10.126)
The Remarca Brand Podcast is a project of ReSound and is recorded in Tempe, Arizona with hosts Mike Jones and David Kosand. It’s produced and edited by Sam Pagel. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and at Remarcablecast.com. If you’d like more episodes, subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, or wherever you prefer to get your podcasts.

To contact the show, find out more about the Remarkable Brand podcast, or to join our newsletter list to make sure you never miss another episode, check out our website at Remarkablecast.com. Copyright, ReSound Creative Media LLC, 2022.